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Nerf this wing

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26 Re: Nerf this wing on Sun May 23, 2010 12:32 am

alecalecalec

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Rena Supporter
Rena Supporter
lol he seriously does have a pair. if you could check the server chat the day before the bug testing event you could see that his character then RoyalCookie said words similar to this: I find these(FVH) boring I don't use these wings a lot as you can see i pop out before my opponent pops out.

anyway that's way off topic

you said that we wouldn't want to be any other private server. so why are we just making PvP revolve around cloaking? which take place in other servers according to you.

why make the quest harder? just change the effect of the wings more suitable in a more thought of strategy because as of now the only strategy most likely to win is the one we both think is cheap. and yes people could make strategies but then again they are forced to follow this cheap strategy because of just what i said it seems to be the superior strategy.

27 Re: Nerf this wing on Sun May 23, 2010 12:33 am

Oreo

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Helper
royal cookie is not me T_T; thats a fake cookie, BC (bad cookie) Sad

28 Re: Nerf this wing on Sun May 23, 2010 12:35 am

Oreo

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Helper
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how about if it drains 5000 hp per sec ._. and if you yggs you will let us know where you are and get spamed xD it could also drain sp instead xD

btw my rg is cookie not royal cookie....



Last edited by Oreo on Sun May 23, 2010 12:37 am; edited 1 time in total

29 Re: Nerf this wing on Sun May 23, 2010 12:36 am

alecalecalec

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Rena Supporter
lol you just told me in-game that you were. and get this if he isn't you then why the hell is he the only person to actually know you're from singapore? i honestly thought you were korean.

(dammit i'm arguing) =))

30 Re: Nerf this wing on Sun May 23, 2010 12:46 am

banryun

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Admin
Admin
alecalecalec wrote:you said that we wouldn't want to be any other private server. so why are we just making PvP revolve around cloaking? which take place in other servers according to you.

Who said we were revolving it around cloaking? That's a player choice and a natural eventual result since sinx cards are a natural item drop. The wing option's just an extra ball to make things more lively.

Just because one aspect is similar doesn't make us exactly like others. If we followed your logic then we should ban yggdrasils and the normal jobs since those are available elsewhere too.

(Not a bad idea though.)

alecalecalec wrote:why make the quest harder? just change the effect of the wings more suitable in a more thought of strategy because as of now the only strategy most likely to win is the one we both think is cheap. and yes people could make strategies but then again they are forced to follow this cheap strategy because of just what i said it seems to be the superior strategy.

We can make a new pair of wings if you want a new effect. Increasing the difficulty of the wings sounds good enough, apparently. And I iterate, nobody is being forced. The option remains theirs.

31 Re: Nerf this wing on Sun May 23, 2010 12:49 am

banryun

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alecalecalec wrote:lol you just told me in-game that you were. and get this if he isn't you then why the hell is he the only person to actually know you're from singapore? i honestly thought you were korean.

(dammit i'm arguing) =))

Alec, you don't have any facts or sufficient proof. The database, however, does. The IP's are different.

Accusations aren't nice. Consider this a warning.

Also: we're really, really off topic now.

32 Re: Nerf this wing on Sun May 23, 2010 12:56 am

alecalecalec

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well as of now it does revolve around cloaking.

with all due respect no sarcasm please. you're exaggerating of what i meant to point out.

and if the quest would be made harder. what would happen to those who have it already? it would seem unfair if thier wings would be taken since kiel spawns at an average of 60minutes. killing three would take 3 hours. Smile

33 Re: Nerf this wing on Sun May 23, 2010 1:02 am

banryun

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alecalecalec wrote:well as of now it does revolve around cloaking.

with all due respect no sarcasm please. you're exaggerating of what i meant to point out.

and if the quest would be made harder. what would happen to those who have it already? it would seem unfair if thier wings would be taken since kiel spawns at an average of 60minutes. killing three would take 3 hours. Smile

It may, and it does. Doesn't have to stop a player if they've got any actual skill, now should it? :p

Don't jump too far into the future. The decisions now aren't final. Even if the decision were up to me, I'd much rather raise up some other issues with staff first before doing any recalls and other changes.

But really, 3 (or 7) hours isn't that long. People play way longer than that, daily, per week, even per month. Even if you say you tried only once a day for three days, you won't always have competition (especially in the wee hours of the morning if you wanted to be extra sure).

34 Re: Nerf this wing on Sun May 23, 2010 1:09 am

alecalecalec

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Rena Supporter
still it is a hassle to actually look for the MVP and you have to admit that fact :>./heh

35 Re: Nerf this wing on Sun May 23, 2010 1:10 am

banryun

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alecalecalec wrote:still it is a hassle to actually look for the MVP and you have to admit that fact :>./heh

Then the person who actually goes through that trouble deserves it more. :p

36 Re: Nerf this wing on Sun May 23, 2010 1:18 am

alecalecalec

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Rena Supporter
anyway i have said everything i wanted to. the final decision is always yours. i just hope what i've said goes into consideration.

37 Re: Nerf this wing on Sun May 23, 2010 3:37 am

quicklog

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All I could say is... this server will lose people if this wing isn't nerfed. It denies the basic principles of pvp. Like I, for example, will probably quit if there is nothing done about this wings. Also my friends will also quit. I just want to balance out pvp for players to be able to have fun. Trust me people would not like this server if this wing is around.



Last edited by quicklog on Sun May 23, 2010 3:46 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : (crap I logged in my bro's account) (this post was posted by scropiondog))

38 Re: Nerf this wing on Sun May 23, 2010 10:40 am

banryun

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Admin
Admin
quicklog wrote:All I could say is... this server will lose people if this wing isn't nerfed. It denies the basic principles of pvp. Like I, for example, will probably quit if there is nothing done about this wings. Also my friends will also quit. I just want to balance out pvp for players to be able to have fun. Trust me people would not like this server if this wing is around.

Denies the basic principle? That's something I've never heard in this argument. How, do tell?

Anyway, thanks for being so concerned about the server. What makes it so bad? Cloak as a wing, or cloak being available to other players? And wanna give suggestions how you want it nerfed?

If you keep being general about it, we'll never know exactly what to fix. You'll only end up leaving thinking we didn't help, and you'd be a waste.

39 Re: Nerf this wing on Sun May 23, 2010 12:32 pm

alecalecalec

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Rena Supporter
i think what he sees wrong is that cloak as a wing isn't actually balanced. but the fact that we have higher rates than the original pRO means that we should just adapt to it. the wing is more or less imbalanced but with a few additions of negative effects it should work just fine. i've thought about it and i just have to agree with choc's suggestions but let's try to make this wing more unattractive so only players that desperately need to include cloak in thier strategy would use it. i was thinking -20%atk and matk or halved walkspeed perhaps.

oh and @quicklog i don't think threatening the Admins about quitting thier game is going to help. i personally know Banryun and i wouldn't want to be targeted by his tongue when it's lashing out sarcasm.

40 Re: Nerf this wing on Sun May 23, 2010 6:13 pm

scropiondog

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Rena Member
Rena Member
Here is what I think we should do to the wing.
Effect: enables cloak lvl 1, -30% atk and matk. mdef and def -30%. (there's a reason why bm exists)

Other suggestion: Enables cloak lvl 3, drains (x)% of hp and sp every 3600 ms. (which will remove them from cloaking every 3.6 secs)

I'm currently thinking of other ones.

41 Re: Nerf this wing on Sun May 23, 2010 6:53 pm

Njord

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Admin
Admin
banryun wrote:
I agree with suggestions one and three. But lowering the level of cloak will reduce it to the same effect as a Frilldora card though. What about replacing it with Chase Walk so that any movement will still be noticeable? (There will be the STR bonus to consider though.)

A quote from first page. This sounds reasonable. Players can't attack / skill while in chasewalk mode, and they need to deactivate the status before they can cast / attack. They are also spotted by earth / aoe spells. Not by Ruwach or Sight, though.

I can remove the STR bonus for non-thief classes.

--

The drains (x)% HP and SP per ms sounds good, but I dont think the player will be uncloaked when they receive the damage. This sounds like a good nerf too. a decent SP decrease per second would be nice. HP would basically kill you. SP just kinda... immobilizes you.

42 Re: Nerf this wing on Sun May 23, 2010 8:17 pm

Chocula

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Admin
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Njord wrote:
banryun wrote:
I agree with suggestions one and three. But lowering the level of cloak will reduce it to the same effect as a Frilldora card though. What about replacing it with Chase Walk so that any movement will still be noticeable? (There will be the STR bonus to consider though.)

A quote from first page. This sounds reasonable. Players can't attack / skill while in chasewalk mode, and they need to deactivate the status before they can cast / attack. They are also spotted by earth / aoe spells. Not by Ruwach or Sight, though.

I can remove the STR bonus for non-thief classes.

--

The drains (x)% HP and SP per ms sounds good, but I dont think the player will be uncloaked when they receive the damage. This sounds like a good nerf too. a decent SP decrease per second would be nice. HP would basically kill you. SP just kinda... immobilizes you.

This sounds very reasonable to me. Smile


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43 Re: Nerf this wing on Sun May 23, 2010 8:35 pm

banryun

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Admin
scropiondog wrote:Here is what I think we should do to the wing.
Effect: enables cloak lvl 1, -30% atk and matk. mdef and def -30%. (there's a reason why bm exists)

Nah. That's downright ridiculous.

@Chocula: I like the chasewalk idea. Very Happy

44 Re: Nerf this wing on Sun May 23, 2010 9:09 pm

Chocula

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banryun wrote:
scropiondog wrote:Here is what I think we should do to the wing.
Effect: enables cloak lvl 1, -30% atk and matk. mdef and def -30%. (there's a reason why bm exists)

Nah. That's downright ridiculous.

@Chocula: I like the chasewalk idea. Very Happy

Me too! Smile) Plus, it shows footsteps and you'll have a slower speed too. >Very Happy


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45 Re: Nerf this wing on Sun May 23, 2010 9:18 pm

banryun

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Admin
Admin
Chocula wrote:
banryun wrote:
scropiondog wrote:Here is what I think we should do to the wing.
Effect: enables cloak lvl 1, -30% atk and matk. mdef and def -30%. (there's a reason why bm exists)

Nah. That's downright ridiculous.

@Chocula: I like the chasewalk idea. Very Happy

Me too! Smile) Plus, it shows footsteps and you'll have a slower speed too. >Very Happy

We can probably even have Njord give a stat reduction for 10 seconds (so -10 STR instead of +10) or something else. xD

46 Re: Nerf this wing on Sun May 23, 2010 11:55 pm

Oreo

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Helper
Helper
stats reduction via skill give a lot of other server side issue in future i suggest we don't touch it ._. unless we can be sure it won't be used to crash us.

let me write a summary on what we have discuss by far~ you are welcome to correct me if i am wrong Smile

1) Wing should be nerf.
2) Wing would give penalty which will cause it to be forced to appear(via SP) or death (via hp).
3) Cloaking would cause someone to move slower or even shown where they are. (via hp / sp which cause them to use healing item therefore letting other know where they are or via footprints using a different skill but make ruwach and sight useless.)
4) Wing should not be taken away...
5) Wing quest may be made harder...



Last edited by Oreo on Mon May 24, 2010 3:31 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : to clarify certain thing)

47 Re: Nerf this wing on Sun May 23, 2010 11:59 pm

Oreo

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Helper
Helper
oh yea heres another type of why to play around with the items which we never explore.

Stats requirement to use the item.

example luk >= 99 or something will cause you to place stats from other part into luk ._. and we can even use multiple limitation which would obviously cause a character to weaken himself if he want to be able to use the skill. :p (dun hit me becoz i know many hate the idea of making stats so complex to use item.)

48 Re: Nerf this wing on Mon May 24, 2010 6:44 am

scropiondog

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Rena Member
Rena Member
Here's my final thought for the wings
Effect: enables use of chasewalk. Drains (x)% hp and sp per 3600 ms. 2 sec fixed casting time of chasewalk Smile

49 Re: Nerf this wing on Mon May 24, 2010 11:45 am

banryun

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Admin
Admin
@Oreo: I like your idea about the stat requirements. I think even more so than any of the others.

@Scropion: Thank you for your contributions. Smile They will be considered during the final discussion.

50 Re: Nerf this wing on Mon May 24, 2010 1:54 pm

Njord

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scropiondog wrote:Here's my final thought for the wings
Effect: enables use of chasewalk. Drains (x)% hp and sp per 3600 ms. 2 sec fixed casting time of chasewalk Smile

If we put casting time at 2 seconds for chasewalk, even the stalker class will get that nerf.

Oreo's stat requirement suggestion is a good idea. How about we require some LUK? It's pretty much a useless stat other than for perfect dodge and crit.

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